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Interview with Camille Huo

  • Anne
    It is August 13th, 2022. This is an interview with Camille Huo for the Oral History Hub Pilot Project The interviewer is Anne Miller.
  • Hi Camille. Can you hear me okay?
  • Camille
    Yes, I can hear you. Hello. Sorry I'm a couple minutes late. My Zoom was acting up.
  • Anne
    No problem. Technology. How are you?
  • Camille
    I'm good. How are you?
  • Anne
    Good. Thank you. Do you have any questions before we start?
  • Camille
    No, I think I'm good. I think the last time that we met, you went over everything well. So yeah, I'm ready.
  • Anne
    Great. So I guess just to begin and kind of ease us into the process, I would love if you’d describe your family background, where you grew up, how many siblings you had, what your parents did, those kinds of questions.
  • Camille
    Yeah, sure. So I was born in Canada, in the GTA. And I've lived in Markham for most of my life. So that's just a suburb a little north from Toronto. I have one sibling. Her name is Emily. And she's three years younger than me. She currently is also studying at the University of Waterloo, and she's doing the math and CPA program. And then my parents both immigrated from China when they were in their 20s. And they met and got married here in Canada. So my dad works in the travel industry. So he's works as a tour guide at a travel agency. And my mom works as a pattern maker. So she studied fashion when she was in college. Yeah, I think that's a good summary of my family.
  • Anne
    Yes. Would you say growing up that education was important to your family?
  • Camille
    Yeah, definitely. My parents have always been very supportive of my sister and I and very encouraging of whatever we wanted to pursue in life, as long as, you know, we were happy and could support ourselves. But yeah, they've always encouraged us to study hard and make sure that, you know, school is our top priority. And then going into university, they're very supportive of us financially. So my sister and I were very lucky in that way.
  • Anne
    Yeah, that's amazing. So a good strong background. Love that. Yes. Were you always a good student in school? Was that something you excelled at from a young age?
  • Camille
    I think so, yes. And not that I'm top of the class. I'm not, you know, always the smartest person. But I've always had a -- I think I've always had a pretty strong work ethic. So yeah, I think that I've enjoyed school most of my life. And I've always been very involved in school with extracurriculars and just trying to get a well-rounded background for myself. Yeah.
  • Anne
    Where do you think that came from, that desire to kind of be well rounded, to have different experiences, to contribute as well to your community?
  • Camille
    I guess just from my childhood, I've always -- my parents had me doing ballet lessons, swimming lessons, math class, Chinese class. So I've always just been, you know, always on the go since I was a kid. And we'd go to, you know, summer camp in the summers. And then when I got to high school, we would transition into, you know, giving back to the community by volunteering as counsellors. So I always really enjoyed my time with volunteer work. And I guess that, you know, kind of trickled into my school life as well. I like to just give back to other students in my community. So yeah, probably just my experiences since childhood.
  • Anne
    Yeah, that's amazing. Well, it sounds like your parents then felt it was also important for you to be well rounded to have different experiences. Is that something they missed out on when they were younger, or is it something they had experienced themselves and then wanted for you?
  • Camille
    I think that it's something they probably experienced as well. One really fun memory I have is when we visited China in 2019. And my dad actually brought my sister and I back to Shenzhen University where he studied. And he was also very involved when he was in university. So he was showing my sister and I he was part of his student council. And he was, like, yeah, that store, we used to run that little convenience store and this grocery store and this little restaurant was also part of their council. So yeah, I would say my dad was very involved. And maybe that kind of trickled down to me as well. And my mom is also the type who's very outgoing. She has so many, you know, friend groups. She loves to help out everyone and, you know, give up her time and energy as a sign of her friendship and love for people.
  • So yeah, I think both of them kind of influenced why I'm like this, too.
  • Anne
    Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing. Well, I'd love to talk about you're coming to Waterloo and your decision to choose the University of Waterloo. Did you apply to a number of universities? And then why did you ultimately decide on Waterloo?
  • Camille
    Yeah. So I've known that I wanted to do pharmacy since I was in grade 11. I did a co-op at Shoppers Drug Mart. And I really enjoyed that. So I was like, okay -- I always knew I wanted a job within healthcare, where I could help people out. So I settled on pharmacy. And so when I was applying to programs in grade 12, I was looking for general science programs. But the thing about Waterloo that really stood out to me was their CAP program. So that's the Conditional Admission to Pharmacy. And it's just a program for high school students who have a passion for pharmacy and know that they want to pursue that after their undergrad. So Waterloo was already my top choice when I was applying because I really wanted to get accepted into CAP. But I also applied to a couple other universities. I also applied to U of T, because they also have a pharmacy program, as well as McMaster and Western, because they have strong science undergrad programs.
  • But ultimately, I got into CAP, and that's why I went to Waterloo. And yeah, here I am now in pharmacy school, going into the second half of my third year. I think I knew since grade 12 that Waterloo was the school for me.
  • Anne
    Yes. And your goal.
  • Camille
    Yes. Yeah.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. What do you think it was about pharmacy that interested you fairly young? Because to be in grade 11 and know already -- was it that you had strong marks and kind of prerequisite subjects? Was it that -- did you have any experience? You said you had that one experience. But how did you get that experience, I guess, would be my question, too.
  • Camille
    Yeah. I was always interested in science, for sure. I really enjoyed biology. And I'm also just the type of person who enjoys talking to people. I think I knew that medicine and nursing would not really be a good fit for me because I'm just a little squeamish. And I don't want to, you know, deal with body fluids and blood and touching people. So I was just -- I think this is in the civics and careers class that is mandatory in grade 11. We were doing those career matching quizzes, and pharmacy was one of them. I think I was also interested in teaching or something with creative background, because I am also -- I think I'm a pretty artistic and creative person. But yeah, when I was looking at which co-op experience I wanted to do, pharmacy was fairly accessible for high school students. So I decided to do my co-op experience with that.
  • And, you know, I really liked the environment. I really liked the people that I worked with. And I really liked the interactions I had with patients, even though I was, what, 16 at that time. Pretty young, for sure. But yeah, I think that was also my first job as a teenager. And my boss had a very great impression on me. And I just really enjoyed that pharmacy environment. And then that kind of connected with the fact that I wanted to do health care and continue my science studies. So yeah, it just kind of worked out that way. And I think I'm -- it's pretty rare for people to know what they want to do that early on. So I am grateful for that. But also, it’s not -- I just want to say that it's not, you know -- it's okay, if you don't know that in high school, in case anyone is out there thinking, oh, I don't know what I want to do, and I'm in grade 11.
  • That's fine. It's very just fortunate for myself.
  • Anne
    Yes. Well, it probably allowed you to focus that way.
  • Camille
    Yeah, for sure.
  • Anne
    Yeah. Wow. What was your impression, I guess, of Waterloo when you first arrived?
  • Camille
    I think I went to an open house event when I was in grade 12. And I really liked the campus and how close everything was and how tight-knit the community seemed. I liked that you can walk -- I remember the volunteers at the open house would be like, oh, you can walk across campus in 15 minutes. And I was like, that's really cool. But it's still a very big campus. It's not that there's like -- there's probably buildings that I've still never stepped foot into. So I liked the campus, the atmosphere, the mix of old buildings and new buildings. It's a pretty cool, just, environment to be in. And yeah, everyone was really friendly and welcoming at the open house. And the pharmacy booth, specifically, people really solidified the fact that I wanted to do pharmacy at Waterloo.
  • Yeah, that was my first impression.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. What about the booth? So were they just warm and welcoming? Or what was it that attracted you to those first kinds of students that you met?
  • Camille
    Yeah, for -- I think the pharmacy ambassadors who were at that booth were definitely very welcoming. And I was thinking, yeah, that's the type of people that, you know, I'd want to, you know, study with, go to school with. And they were very helpful with the questions that I had. Yeah, they were just very welcoming.
  • Anne
    That's lovely. That's lovely. And how has the program been so far? How competitive would you say it is?
  • Camille
    Do you mean CAP, or do you mean pharmacy?
  • Anne
    Pharmacy. But maybe you describe -- so you started you did two -- is it about two and a half years in your science undergrad?
  • Camille
    Yes, I did two years of undergrad in the honours science program. So CAP, I would say, is pretty competitive. They only take, I think, 20 to 25 people per year. So that's why I was just so, you know, surprised that I got it and very happy. And then the pharmacy program at Waterloo takes 120 people every year. So it's definitely competitive. In Ontario, there's also the U of T pharmacy program, which takes 240 students. So you kind of have options in Ontario in terms of if you want to pursue pharmacy. But I think overall it's competitive to get in. But the environment now that I'm experiencing with my peers is very supportive. It's not at all people trying to compete with one another or take one another down, even with the co-op program in pharmacy, where it's the same pool of jobs for everyone.
  • And we're all, you know, interviewing against one another. All of the friends and peers that I have met have been very supportive of one another. We all know that there's jobs out there for us when we graduate. So yeah, I'm just very -- I'm happy and grateful for the group of people that are in my cohort because everyone is very nice and supportive of one another.
  • Anne
    That's amazing to have such a supportive environment and to learn in. And can you talk about maybe the workload and how challenging kind of organizing your time is?
  • Camille
    The workload is definitely challenging in pharmacy, as is any post-undergrad or professional school. You have four years to learn everything that there is to know about medicine and drugs in pharmacy. So yeah, the workload is definitely tough. And on top of that, a lot of people are involved in, you know, clubs at the School of Pharmacy. Or we have part time jobs that we do on the weekends. And you know, just your social life, your personal care. So it's definitely challenging organizing all of that. But I try to stay organized with an agenda and Google Calendar to, you know, kind of schedule, time for everything. But I won't lie, I usually sleep a lot less during school terms just because there's so much to do. But it's -- everyone else is, you know, kind of going through that same challenge of time management and managing a very challenging and heavy course load.
  • So I know I'm not alone in that, and I have people to talk to and rely on when it gets challenging and very busy during midterms. Yeah.
  • Anne
    There's that importance of your community again, right, supporting each other.
  • Camille
    Exactly.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. And in turn, can you speak about the quality of teaching and the professors that you've been exposed to?
  • Camille
    Yeah. The professors at the School of Pharmacy are awesome. They're very engaging. And since we have a pretty small cohort size, only 120 students, I think the professors really get to know us as people. And they'll remember our faces and names, even with our first half of this journey being online with virtual classes. Going back into an in-person term next term, I'm very excited to see the professors in person again. And some of them are – they’ve come along with us throughout all four years, just teaching the same course, as we advance in that topic. But yeah, they're so receptive to our comments and feedback, as we're all learning how to do virtual school throughout COVID.
  • And I know a couple of them have won teaching awards recently, which is great. It's great that they're being recognized for their hard work. Yeah. There are also, you know, pharmacists outside of their teaching career. Or pharmacy assistants, they have background in pharmacy. So they really understand and know the position that we will be going through. So in that way, they're able to teach from their own experience and their own clinical knowledge, which is really cool.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. And you brought up COVID, that was one of my questions was just what or how, I guess, that has influenced kind of your education during the last few years.
  • Camille
    Oh. It's influenced it a lot. It's changed, you know, the whole course of how we expected pharmacy school to be. So I think my cohort is very lucky that we had about two and a half months together before the pandemic hit. So we all started together in January 2020. And we got to meet each other in real life and meet our professors and go through part of pharmacy school together before everything went online in March of 2020. And then having classes virtually was definitely tough. But everyone, you know, went through that, so everyone knows how tough it was. But I think that the professors and the faculty at the School of Pharmacy were very open to our feedback. And they would constantly tweak how things were being done. And then I know a lot of people were involved in the vaccines.
  • When the COVID vaccines came out, as pharmacy students, we got our injection training. And so many of my peers were involved in vaccinating people, working in clinics and hospitals to distribute COVID vaccines. So that was a really cool experience for us as pharmacy students. I don't think any other cohort would have experienced what we did, just being so involved in this, you know, worldwide healthcare campaign while we were still in school. So I think that really affected my cohort in general. We were able to get a lot of real life experience while still in school. So yeah, obviously, the pandemic had a very negative outcome on just education in general, where we had to go virtual. But for us, as pharmacy students, it also gave us a positive experience with helping distribute the vaccines.
  • And yeah.
  • Anne
    Would you be able to speak at all to how it influenced the field of pharmacy?
  • Camille
    Yeah. It definitely changed a lot and brought up the visibility of pharmacists. So as we know, a lot of doctors' clinics closed, and they did not see patients in person. A lot of that was virtual or phone consultation. The pharmacies remained open along with whatever other essential companies, gas stations or grocery stores. So we received a lot of recognition as frontline healthcare workers and rightfully so because pharmacists were still working in person during the pandemic. You can't really do that online, you know, giving people their medications and counselling them and then later on doing vaccines. So I think the pharmacy profession overall received a lot more recognition for the behind-the-scenes work that we do and also brought up the awareness that we can provide clinical services, just assessing people, referring them to the ER if it's more urgent and just providing medical advice overall.
  • I think a lot of the general public doesn't understand how deep our knowledge goes. So having patients come to us during the pandemic really helped them gain trust in us and let them know that we're also another avenue that they can go to with their health concerns. So yeah, the pandemic overall brought more awareness to what pharmacists do other than just counting pills because it's a lot more than that.
  • Anne
    Yes, that's amazing. I'm glad you spoke to that because as you said, it's -- there's a body of knowledge there that's very expansive. Yes. Amazing. So you did mention that you played a role in the COVID-19 vaccine rollout. But I think you downplayed that a little bit because you did a lot in one of your co-op terms. And I'd love you to speak a bit to the work you did. And you really -- I read an article where you were interviewed, and you were talking about the work you did. And you took some initiative to kind of make things better and improve things for patient care. So I'd love you to speak to that a bit.
  • Camille
    Yeah, for sure. This was during my very first co-op term. It was my first co-op in general at the University of Waterloo and then my first co-op in the pharmacy school. So I worked at Toronto East Pharmasave, which is an outpatient community pharmacy located inside of Michael Guerin Hospital. That's in East Toronto. So I started working there in January 2021. And then the vaccine started to roll out in pharmacies around March of 2021. So this was the second half of my co-op term. And our pharmacy was chosen as one of the community pharmacies to provide vaccines. So when that started, it kind of hit us out of nowhere. It was very go, go, go. Very, very -- we had to adapt very quickly. So I didn't have my injection training at that time yet.
  • So I supported more of the admin work with scheduling patients, checking their eligibility and just fielding all of the appointments that we were booking for people to come in and get their vaccine. We got so many phone calls all the time, with people asking me about it. But I was very happy to be able to answer some of these people's questions and get people vaccinated as quickly as possible. So yeah, that was most of my work during the second term and the initiative that I took on was more so just helping to run the vaccine clinic and make sure that everything went smoothly. And then when we were back in school for the spring term, we got our injection training. So after I received that in, I believe, June of 2021, we were actually able to start vaccinating people. So I went back to Toronto East Pharmasave to help inject our patients.
  • And that was really cool. I didn't think that at that time in my pharmacy school career I'd already be injecting people. But there was a very urgent need of people who are injection trained. And that's why they pushed up earlier into our curriculum. And then around that same time, I also started working for the Michael Guerin vaccine clinic. So this was a hospital-run clinic. So it was a much bigger scale. So I supported more of the constitution of the vaccine. So actually, you know, drawing it out of the vial, mixing it with the saline and just preparing all of the syringes for people to inject the patients. And that was such a cool experience as well. I don't know if you heard in Toronto, that 25k vaccine day at Scotiabank arena. The City of Toronto just had a huge campaign to get people their first dose. And that was one of the highlights of the summer of that year, being able to work at that mass clinic.
  • And then, yeah, just supporting the hospital clinic with their vaccines. And yeah, that was the majority of my summer last year, really, and the same experience with a lot of my classmates. We were just working part time while in school to help vaccine clinics and community pharmacies distribute the COVID vaccines. Yeah.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. Can you speak to the general kind of feeling of maybe stress or pressure that your field was experiencing during that time?
  • Camille
    Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of pharmacists were looking for extra help because the clinic would require, you know, a whole other person to do it. The pharmacist on duty can't be looking after dispensing medications and counselling and running the clinic. So I know a lot of classmates, that's why we had so much work to do, working part time. The pharmacies were definitely busy with their regular daily tasks on top of the clinics. And it was a pretty stressful time because we all had our schoolwork to do. And then we worked, you know, part time or in the evenings, on the weekends. So it was challenging time management in that sense. And I think kind of coming out of it now with the pandemic, you know, getting a lot better and most people being vaccinated. I recently went to the Canadian Pharmacist Association Conference.
  • It's a national annual conference for pharmacists and pharmacy students. And it was held in Ottawa this year in June. And the theme of that was burnout in pharmacy. So I think during those two years, we were just going, you know, go, go, go, go, no stopping. And then now that it's died down a bit and we have a chance to reflect and breathe a little bit, we see how crazy it was and how much pharmacies and pharmacists contributed to that. And it's kind of at a point, you know, where we're tired. We're kind of burnt out from doing all of that. So it was definitely a stressful time. And now it's a time to look back on that and try and figure out tactics on how to prevent burnout in healthcare in general. It's not just pharmacists who were on the go all the time. You know, nurses, doctors, everyone was so involved. And now that it's slowed down a little, we're all realizing how burnt out we feel.
  • So definitely a stressful time.
  • Anne
    Yes, I think you speak to something important about the healthcare profession and the impact that COVID has really had on them. It must be challenging thinking, okay, how do we go forward from here? How do we make sure people aren't overworked and feel supported and feel that they have the backing that they need?
  • Camille
    Yeah, definitely.
  • Anne
    Yes. Oh, interesting. Can I talk a bit about the university and how you have felt kind of supported or part of the community at Waterloo? Because you said you had these great teachers. Do you feel that -- did you have anyone in particular that mentored you? Or was it just kind of as a general class?
  • Camille
    I don't think I had a particular professor that I went to with questions, but all of them were very open to one-one-one meetings if we felt like we needed more support in their course. And I know some of my classmates do have mentors, professors that they lean on, if it's -- especially a professor in the field that they're interested in pursuing later. But yeah, there was, you know, discussion posts on LEARN. And professors were always open to us asking questions there. They also encouraged what -- for us to post our responses and thoughts to one another's discussion posts. That's more of a discussion. Yeah, I think it was -- it's a very supportive environment where they're open to meeting with us and answering any questions that we have.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. What do you think it is about Waterloo that makes it unique?
  • Camille
    Definitely the co-op program. I know that's what attracts so many students to come see Waterloo. And it definitely is what attracted me, especially after I did co-op in grade 11, and how much of an impact that made on me. I knew that co-op at Waterloo, you know, it's world renowned, and it's such a great program. So I always, you know, promote that to younger people who are asking me about that. And it's just a great way to gain experience while we're in school. It's only four months. So it's not, you know, a long-term commitment. But four months is enough time for you to really understand a company and get to know your employee -- get to know your coworkers and just the work culture and also making money while you're in school. That's so important to be able to support yourself a little bit. So yeah, that's definitely what makes Waterloo unique is the co-op program.
  • I know sometimes people complain about how they don't have summer breaks. And that's definitely true. Also, a lot of my friends are always, like, I never know what you're doing because it's always you're either on co-op or you're on school. And the schedule is so confusing sometimes for people who don't have a schedule like ours. But I think it's worth it in the end because you gain so much experience, you're able to make some money while you're in school, and it's experience in a field that you want to do afterwards. It's not a random part time job that's not related at all. So yeah, it's definitely a very valuable part of Waterloo and what makes it so special as a school.
  • Anne
    Yes. And I believe it's the only program in Canada, the only pharmacy co-op program in Canada.
  • Camille
    Yeah. Yeah. It is. Yeah.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. And so the pharmacy program, it’s structured, you get three co-op terms throughout your degree. So you have -- you start in the school program. And you do -- you said a four-month work term?
  • Camille
    Yes. Yeah. So we actually do 12 months of school in our first year. We do three terms of academics. That's definitely very tough. You’re very, very tired by the end of those 12 months. And then you do your first co-op for four months, back to school term, your second co-op for four months, back to school term, the third co-op, which I'm currently in right now, and then back to school. And then we end off the program with six months of rotations. So that's a little bit different from co-op where it's not paid work, but rather the preceptors at your rotation sites have specific learning goals for you. So I know other pharmacy programs do have rotations and a lot of other healthcare schools -- healthcare programs will have rotations. So it's just a way for you to gain more experience before you actually graduate. Yeah, that's the general structure of the pharmacy program.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. So you just -- you referred to the co-op placement you're in right now. And so that's for MedMe.
  • Camille
    Yes, that's right.
  • Anne
    And you mentioned it was a bit kind of nontraditional. Could you talk about why it's nontraditional?
  • Camille
    Yeah, definitely. I think when students think about pharmacy and where to go with that, it's very linear, the pathways. You have community pharmacy, so, you know, your shoppers, direct sells. You have hospital pharmacy, and then you have industry. So working with a pharmaceutical company like Bayer, Sanofi, something like that. And in the more recent years, the world of pharmacy is changing and expanding pretty quickly. So nontraditional is kind of a new bucket that people have started using to describe jobs and careers where it's not one of those three that we always talk about. So MedMe is a startup company in the health tech space. And they are a platform for community pharmacies to schedule clinical services for patients.
  • So for example, appointments for flu shots, for COVID shots, medication reviews, smoking cessation appointments. So it's more transforming the space for pharmacy to engage patients more and try to provide more clinical services. So that's definitely very nontraditional. It's more of like a startup and technology company. So yeah, that's considered nontraditional. Some other examples would be working for advocacy groups, for example, the Ontario Pharmacist Association, OPA, or government agencies like Health Canada or the Canadian Pharmacists Association, some more remote type jobs, working from home situations. And that's definitely gotten a lot more popular recently. People like working from home.
  • I definitely am enjoying it. And I think the pandemic has shown us how you can still be productive working from home. So yeah, pharmacy is definitely moving into more digital health, technology. And there's more nontraditional jobs opening up, which is really great because the pharmacy profession in general is definitely expanding and changing as the healthcare system in Canada is changing and, you know, the needs of our population are changing. So yeah, nontraditional is definitely a pathway that people can consider now when they're in pharmacy school.
  • Anne
    Is the education you're receiving complementing that change? Has it caught up yet, I suppose, as that changed?
  • Camille
    We do have an entrepreneurship management course as an elective. And then we also have an intro to digital health, where it kind of talks about all of the systems that pharmacy uses, all of the digital tools that we have. We also have a course in Canadian healthcare systems. So that kind of gives us a background on how, you know, the Ontario Drug Benefit insurance works, how pharmacies are reimbursed. So I think that we are prepped with some tools to go into that. But since it's such a quickly expanding and growing topic in pharmacy, I think there's still more things that can be included in the curriculum. But obviously, that takes time. But I think we do have a foundation to work off of.
  • Anne
    Yes. That's good. If there was one thing you'd say should be included, as soon as it's possible, what would it be?
  • Camille
    Oh, that's hard.
  • Anne
    It is a hard one.
  • Camille
    I'm trying to think back on everything we've learned so far and see what the gap is.
  • Anne
    You can think about it, too. You don't need to answer it right now.
  • Camille
    Okay. Yeah. I'll think about it and get back to you because, yeah, I feel like we do have most things that we need. Obviously in any profession, you can't learn everything that you need to know in four years. It's the experience that you gain once you're working as well. So yeah, I don't know.
  • Anne
    It's okay. Thank you. I was curious about the co-op program and its structure with the curriculum, if there was anything you think could be improved upon.
  • Camille
    The co-op in general within Waterloo?
  • Anne
    Or I guess -- yes, the co-op program in general, at Waterloo, or more specifically, in pharmacy.
  • Camille
    I guess it's always the time and just our schedules are always so, so packed. And we have to apply for jobs and do interviews during our first two weeks of school. I don't really know if that's something that can change, though, because I know that it's a cycle of between school and work. It's definitely so stressful for students to be thinking about interviews while we're sitting in class and, you know, revising our resumes and cover letters, on top of our regular studies. That's something that all co-op students go through those. I think we kind of adapt and learn how to manage our time. And I know there's definitely resources and co-op counsellors to help with that as well. And there's a lot of resources out there to, you know, practice mock interviews and edit your resume and cover letters.
  • So I think that overall, the co-op program has done a very good job of supporting the students. It's just the time, the time of everything, having to do all of that on top of school. It's very, very stressful. But I think it does teach us time management and life skills in general. People will always, you know, have deadlines to meet or busy periods in their life. So it kind of is a good experience to teach you how to -- like, about yourself and how you manage your time. So it's a challenge, but it's something that we all accepted when we decided to go into co-op programs. Yeah.
  • Anne
    And I like how you kind of spoke to it's a challenge, but it seems to lead to growth on a personal level as well as the professional.
  • Camille
    Yeah, it pushes you, for sure.
  • Anne
    Yes. I think that's really valuable. It's good to know that and to reflect on that and to see its importance and also its challenge. How challenging was it to switch from your academic studies into the work world?
  • Camille
    I think with the jobs where it was traditional -- more traditional pharmacy, so my first one being in community and my second one being in hospital, it wasn't as challenging because I'm bringing the knowledge that I studied in school into real life practice. And our preceptors and pharmacists that we worked with were always very supportive and had a lot of resources for us to learn things if it's something that we hadn't covered in the program yet. So it wasn't as challenging in that sense because we always had our school notes to go back to or resources that they provided to us. And you just learnt so much on the job as well when you're actually just working and doing the tasks that need to be done. Maybe going into my job right now was a little more -- less applicable with what I learnt in school and to applying it into working here.
  • It's definitely a very new experience for me. I've never really been involved in the technology space or, you know, startup companies. So just learning about that sort of culture and all the acronyms that they use in a startup company was very interesting. And I still do use some of my clinical knowledge at MedMe with researching and bringing my pharmacy knowledge and background into any product that they were designing. But yeah, I think the transition from school to co-op is not that difficult. You just learn once you get there.
  • Anne
    So the position you're in now for your co-op, is that something you could have done as a first co-op? Or was it -- is it something that you were kind of permitted to do now that you had more of a traditional co-op experience?
  • Camille
    There's no hard fast rule on what you can do for your first co-op. So I think you could definitely have done it in your first one. I don't even think it was actually on WaterlooWorks when we were applying. They weren't, you know, seeking co-op students when I was applying for my first round. But I think it's really good that I'm having it as my last one because then I got to experience the other traditional co-op jobs and positions and then, you know, dipped my toes into nontraditional and see if I enjoy it and can see myself in that in the future. So yeah, I think the sequence of type of jobs that you do for your co-op will really depend on yourself and what you want to do in future or what you're interested in. And either way, you'll learn something out of it. So yeah, I think doing traditional before nontraditional, it doesn't really matter.
  • Anne
    Yeah. Okay. Neat. And you spoke a little bit to kind of the competitiveness of getting a placement. Do you know anything about how hard it is for them to line up the placements or the availability of opportunities?
  • Camille
    Yeah. I can speak on pharmacy positions that are available. I know with other programs, it's definitely difficult, especially probably during the pandemic. There were less in-person jobs overall. And I know the general co-op program, they have, I think, 50 applications that they can do. And then, you know, out of those 50, maybe they'll have five interviews. So I know it's more competitive with the general co-op program. With the pharmacy co-op program, our co-op advisor, his name is Anthony. And he's been doing it for a long time, I know. So he has a lot of great connections with pharmacies all across Canada and a lot of long-standing relationships with them. So, you know, those co-op employers come back every term for hiring. And one thing that they emphasize when we first start learning about the co-op program at pharmacy is that everyone will have a job. There's more jobs than there are students.
  • So that's a very relieving thing. And that's probably what helps with the competitiveness. No one is going to be, you know, left without a job in this program. It's more so just if it's your first choice or not. So yeah, we were reassured with that fact that everyone would be employed for a co-op. And it's a very strict schedule with pharmacy. I don't think you can, you know, miss a co-op or else you’ll be held back a year. So yeah, they're very accommodating with our co-ops. In terms of the competitiveness between students during co-op, definitely gets a little tense. I think people -- you know, there's always those certain jobs that everyone wants, like the ones that are -- people know is a really good placement or the preceptor is really a great teacher. So it's always competitive in that sense where that job will have a lot of applications and a lot of interviews.
  • And then the fact that you can see who you're interviewing against is a little bit nerve-wracking as well because you'll see other friends and students. And you know how strong of a candidate they are. But then, I think overall, everyone is still very friendly with one another after, you know, the whole process is over. Yeah, so it's still a competitive environment. But we are still very supportive with one another and will, you know, talk about, like, oh, how did your interview go? Yeah, that was a really tough one. So yeah.
  • Anne
    I think you answered that question well. Thank you. I would love to just talk about how you were named Co-op Student of the Year for the Faculty of Science. And you were the first pharmacy student to receive that award in 2021. What did that mean to you?
  • Camille
    It's such an honour for sure to be named that. I really was not expecting it. I just applied because of such -- that experience that I had at Toronto East Pharmasave was such a good one. My preceptor was honestly amazing. And then I thought that it was just a very unique experience that people have not heard of, you know, with the whole COVID vaccine pandemic involvement. So that's why I decided to apply. I thought people might be interested in that story and that specific time in history. I hope that this never happens again ever in our lifetime that we go through something like this. So I just thought it was a really unique experience. And I wanted to share that with the co-op student of the year application. And yeah, I guess the panellists also thought the same. And I know I'm not the first pharmacy student to apply for this application or sorry, this award. I know others have applied for it.
  • So I am just very honoured and grateful to be the first pharmacy student who received this award. Similar to how I was speaking about the pandemic bringing awareness to the pharmacy profession in general, I think me receiving this award brought more awareness to the pharmacy program at the School of Pharmacy -- at the University of Waterloo. If you didn't know, we're on a satellite campus, so our building is located in Kitchener. It's not on main campus. So it's pretty obscure. Not a lot of people know about us. And also, it's such a small pool of people, in the thousands and thousands of other students at Waterloo. So people probably just didn't even know that this pharmacy school existed. Or they just don't know that much about pharmacy and pharmacy students. So being able to share my story with everyone at the School of Pharmacy -- at the University of Waterloo -- it was kind of scary.
  • Everyone, you know, knows my name now or has seen my photo somewhere. But it's still a really great experience being able to share my story and the story of many pharmacy students during the pandemic. It's not just me. It's a lot of people who went through what I did. Yeah, being able to share that with everyone at the school -- at the University of Waterloo was really cool. And one funny thing is that now that we're able to, you know, meet up with people again, in person this summer, I've been able to catch up with a lot of friends that I haven't seen in a long time. And the first thing that they always say to me is, oh, I saw your tag on the co-op student of the year on LinkedIn. And that's how I know it's, you know, kind of going on in your life. So that's just -- that was just a funny thing to me that it's circulating so widely on LinkedIn. It's a little scary as well because my face is out there for the world to see.
  • But again, it's bringing the well-deserved recognition for pharmacy students and what we went through last year. So even though it's recognizing, you know, me and my name and my story, I feel like it is also representing what all my classmates went through. And that's something I'm really proud of, what we did together to support the pandemic.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. I love that you're recognizing your fellow pharmacy students as well. But yes, that's amazing. I'd love to get your thoughts a little bit more just on the university and if you might be able to speak to maybe diversity within your program or within the campus at large.
  • Camille
    Yeah. I think my program, the students are very diverse. We have people from all types of backgrounds. We have people like me who did two years of undergrad and then went into the program. We also have people who completed their undergrad or did two programs. So some more mature students in the program. People from all across Ontario and also out of province. A couple of people from British Columbia. I have a classmate who's from Yellowknife. So it's been really fun getting to know everyone in my cohort and hearing their stories of, you know, their hometowns where they grew up, having different ages within the cohort and just hearing more about, you know, all of their different stories. And then the campus in general on Waterloo, I would say, is also similar in that type of diversity where we have a lot of international students, a lot of out of province students.
  • And everyone just bringing all of their experiences into their studies and all of their different opinions and ideas. And I think that's just the really cool thing about university and college in general, really coming out of your bubble of your high school or your hometown and getting to meet people from all over the world, really, and just expanding your network of people that you get to interact with. Yeah.
  • Anne
    That's great. That's great. Thank you. You spoke a little bit about your campus being separate. Does that kind of influence how much you get to interact with students outside of pharmacy?
  • Camille
    I think so. Yeah. Probably most of the people I talk with are from my program. And now being in my fifth year of university in general, a lot of the people who I started university with have graduated. They either did four or five years. And they're, you know, done at this point. So people who are my age are all graduated. But I know a lot of people -- a couple of people in my program are still involved with some clubs from main campus. So that's really cool. I'm still, you know -- sometimes when they share it on their social media, I still get to see all of the events that go on at the main campus. And I also live on main campus, still. And I just take the ION train to get to the pharmacy campus, which is just like a 12-minute ride away. So, you know, sometimes I'll still study on main campus. Or I'll see posters and events of things going on there. And, you know, again, my sister is studying there right now.
  • So she's still on main campus, so I can still interact with her and her friends or her group of people. So even though we're physically separate from the main campus, I think we can still make an effort to be involved on main campus.
  • Anne
    Great. You were quite involved in or are quite involved in student associations and pharmacy -- student pharmacy associations. Can you talk about how some of those extracurricular activities have supported your education or just supported your development as a whole?
  • Camille
    Yeah, for sure. Like I mentioned before, I've always been involved. Even in high school, I was in several clubs. And then in undergrad, I was also in a couple of clubs. So naturally, that's just how I spend my time, I guess. So I wanted to be involved at the School of Pharmacy. So currently, I'm on CAPSI, which is the Canadian Association of Pharmacy Students and Interns. This is my third year with the club. I just moved up throughout the role. So now I'm the senior national rep. So kind of the president of the club. And that club is a national association. So all the other 10 pharmacy schools across Canada also have their own chapter of CAPSI. That has been probably one of my favourite parts of being involved with the school of pharmacy because I got -- I've gotten to meet pharmacy students across Canada from all the different provinces.
  • So now I can say I have friends across Canada. And it's really cool because we compare, you know, what our programs are like, what our supports are like at all of these different schools. I recently got to meet them in real life in Ottawa, when we got together for that CPhA conference, the National Pharmacists Conference. So that has really helped me expand my scope and horizon of what pharmacy is like across Canada, what people are like across Canada in general. And yeah, so that's my involvement with CAPSI. And then I'm also part of the Society of Pharmacy Students, SOPS. And that's our Student Council at the School of Pharmacy. And my role there is the communications director. So I'm actually starting to wrap up my two years on that role. So with that, I created social media graphics for all of the events that our club ran.
  • I managed the emails for SOPS. And we put out a bimonthly newsletter, outlining what's going on with the events at the School of Pharmacy from the student perspective. So that role has helped me really get involved with what's -- you know, what all the current events are at the School of Pharmacy and helping other students also get involved by advertising all of these events. And yeah, through both of these clubs, I've gotten to meet some of my closest friends in pharmacy school. I think that's probably one of the best parts of being involved is finding like-minded people who are passionate about the same thing as you are, you know, planning and organizing events together, attending these events together, going to conferences and trips with one another. And it's just a really nice bonding experience and brings together people from all different groups of friends.
  • And yeah, it's motivation -- it's very motivating to have people who are also as passionate as you in posting all of these different things. So yeah, that's really helped enhance my time at the School of Pharmacy. Obviously, it adds a lot to my plate. And it's very time-consuming and stressful. But I think it is worth it with all of the unique opportunities and all of the friendships I've gotten to make. And it adds more meaning to school life because it's not just studying. There's also social events and club meetings and it gives some purpose to your time during there and helps you, you know, make a mark at the School of Pharmacy or wherever -- whatever club you're involved in. It will, you know, make a mark on the lives of the students that you're running all of these things for.
  • Anne
    Yes. That's amazing. How were events kind of shaped by COVID? So at the beginning, you probably couldn't hold any events. And were there -- did you kind of come up with alternatives? Did you do things virtually? What ended up happening?
  • Camille
    Yeah. You would think that clubs kind of die out during something like that where you're not allowed to do anything in person. But if anything, the clubs got stronger. A lot of new clubs formed at the school. And we just hosted a lot of virtual events. So we'd have educational events where we invited speakers and experts to talk about a specific topic. And everything would just be, you know, over Zoom. Or we'd have online game tournaments. There was a Codenames tournament, which is very popular, which is run by one of my friends, Sarah, on SOPS. She did such a great job with that. So I think people were very -- just got very creative with what events we could run. I would say, you know, as expected, participation was also not as high as pre-pandemic because people, especially now, are getting tired of online events. And we just want to get back to seeing each other in person.
  • But during the pandemic, you know, we got very creative with the things that we did. And we made the most of it. We tried our best to maintain the number of events that we've held and tried to make it as engaging as possible as you can over Zoom. Yeah.
  • Anne
    That answers my question. Are you allowed to hold things now in person again? And have you found the numbers have gone up since things can be in person?
  • Camille
    Yeah. I started my senior national rep term in May of this year. So the spring term, this is like a -- when the cohorts are fully back in person again. So yes, we are allowed to have in-person events. And it's been so much fun having them. And it's a little scary for me because I was not -- I didn't attend any of the traditional annual events that were in person pre-pandemic. So I always tell my council, you know, it's okay if it's not the same as before. We're making new traditions for ourselves and for CAPSI and for all the students here. But yeah, throughout the spring term, we had lots of in-person events, and I'm so proud of my council for organizing them. We had an outdoor movie night, which was new. We had trivia night at a restaurant that we always used to go to. We had a social mingling event with bubble tea, where first years got to mingle with upper years and ask questions.
  • And yeah, we just had a lot more in-person events. And we're looking forward to hosting more in the fall term. And hopefully, more students can participate in them. People who didn't really participate in the online ones can come now again to our in-person events. And we can increase participation, increase just people meeting one another outside of schoolwork. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun, for sure.
  • Anne
    That's great. I know everyone is excited to be back in person. I have young children. So I'm excited for in person.
  • Camille
    Yeah, yeah. Get them out of the house, finally.
  • Anne
    Exactly. I just have two kind of major big questions to end off on. But the one was about what your plans are after you finish your degree in pharmacy? Do you have kind of a career goal in mind right now or a direction you would like to go in?
  • Camille
    Oh, this is always a challenging question. Yeah, I've reflected on this before. And it's funny because, like I said before, I have known that I wanted to do pharmacy since grade 11. And I was one of the lucky few who had, you know, a set path that I knew I wanted to go down. And I reached my goals with that, getting into CAP and then getting into pharmacy. So it's been smooth sailing for me, I would say. And now I'm in a position where I don't know. And it's scary now experiencing what, you know, all of those 17, 18-year-olds are experiencing where they don't know what they want to do with their life. At least for me, I know it's going to be in pharmacy somehow. But I don't know -- I don't know where. So with all my co-ops, I did community, I did hospital, and then now I'm doing nontraditional. So I've had the opportunity to experience so many different sectors of pharmacy.
  • And I enjoy all of them. So I really don't -- I really don't know actually. I think a lot of my classmates do know at least, oh, I want to do community or I want to pursue hospital. So that's really great for them that they know. But I know there's also people in my boat who don't know yet. And we're approaching -- we're starting to approach the end of our program. We only have one year left. We'll graduate in August next year. So we will have to decide soon. But yeah, for me, I'm not quite sure yet. I really enjoyed aspects of all of the sectors that I was able to dip my toes into. The next step for a lot of people is -- if they're interested in hospital -- is applying for residencies. So that's like a specialized one-year program once you graduate, where you work in a hospital or an industry. And you just gain more skills in that specific unit that you work in or hospital that you work in.
  • So a lot of people are starting to prepare for residency applications. And again, that's pretty daunting for me because it's a very, very, very competitive process. Each hospital only accepts two or three residents per year. And hundreds of us are applying. We're also competing against U of T students. So I'm still considering if I want to put myself through that, if I want to apply for residency. I definitely can see myself working in the hospital in the future. I could also see myself doing community or something nontraditional. There's just so many options and opportunities available that I don't know where to focus my attention on. But yeah, I think I might really consider applying for residency and see if hospital pharmacy is what I want to do. And whenever I talk about this with my preceptors or pharmacists, they tell me it's okay if you don't know.
  • And it's okay if your first job isn't what you want to do for the rest of your life. You have so much time. Even if you, you know, start working in a job, sign a one-year contract or whatever, that's only one year. Right? And you can gain experience from that and learn more about yourself and what you want to do. So I'm trying to reassure myself in that way that it's not like your first job is your job forever. You can always switch, do more training or learn more about whatever field you want to do and then pursue that. So yeah, I'm trying not to be stressed about the future and what I want to do.
  • Anne
    Well, if the pandemic has taught us anything that we can plan, but --
  • Camille
    That's exactly right. Yeah. I've always been the type who has planned out my future and has known what I want to do. And yeah, like you said, that's spot on. The pandemic has taught us that you cannot predict your future at all. And it can happen to literally the whole world is turned upside down. So yeah, I'm just going to take it day by day and see where that leads me.
  • Anne
    You talked about teaching earlier. So I was curious if you ever have considered doing a master's of pharmacy or going in that direction.
  • Camille
    Oh, you know, I briefly thought about that as well. Yeah, in high school -- I've always enjoyed teaching people. I would teach -- as a counsellor, you know, you talk to kids and campers. And I've always had an interest in working with children. So yeah, that's honestly an option that you just put into my brain. Maybe pursuing a master's. That's kind of a little thing on my list too, maybe being a lecturer for the School of Pharmacy or teaching some type of course. Yeah, I could see myself doing that, too. Yeah.
  • Anne
    So my very big question is if you were to cast your thoughts forward to the University of Waterloo's centennial, so when the University of Waterloo turns 100 years old -- they have a plan at the University of Waterloo, like Waterloo 100. I'm curious what you would hope to see for the university.
  • Camille
    Okay. What year is that going to happen?
  • Anne
    Oh, my goodness. I don't even know my dates. So 2057; 2057. So it's a long way away, but they're already starting to think of it. And I think they're starting to think of it so soon because Waterloo is such a relatively young institution. And I think it's with kind of in mind, where is Waterloo going? So Waterloo went from this really small kind of community-driven University to being this huge internationally renowned university and institution. So I think they're trying to think what is Waterloo going to look now that it's gotten bigger, now that it's really established itself on the international scale or scene, rather. So I'm curious. And maybe you can speak to this more for pharmacy, is what would you want the future of the pharmacy program to look like or the university more widely?
  • Camille
    Yeah. That was a big question. I think it's so far off in the future, but I'm glad that they're starting to think about it because it will be definitely very monumental. I think this project itself is something very huge, like, being able to record the individual stories of people at Waterloo, because there are so many backgrounds, like I mentioned, so many unique people. So maybe being able to look back on all of that and seeing how the education has shaped our students and, you know, where they are in the future. This will be in, what, 30, 40 years. Maybe like a then and now. If you interview people now and then try and find them again in 2057 and see how they're doing and what their life is like and how studying at the University of Waterloo had shaped them and their future.
  • That would be a really interesting project. And then with the School of Pharmacy, they're very young, too. I think they started in the early 2000s. So they're a very, very new program as well. And there's already a lot of changes being made currently as we talk. They're revamping the curriculum. And I think they will always have to continually look into the curriculum. As you said, the pharmacy world is also changing all the time and very quickly right now. So I guess with the School of Pharmacy, what I want to see in the future is how they keep up with all of the new fields in pharmacy, as we continue to expand the profession, seeing, you know, programs that are up to date with all of the new things, while obviously keeping that foundation of the general knowledge that we need to know with drugs and conditions.
  • And I have full faith that they will because if anything that Waterloo is known for, it's innovation. That's the slogan. So yeah, just continuing to innovate, coming up with new ideas and being adaptable with our changing world as we know it. Yeah.
  • Anne
    That's great. And you actually touched on something that I was going to ask in our final thoughts. So just the importance of telling stories like yours and the importance of really getting to know the individuals that make up the Waterloo community.
  • Camille
    Yeah. It's definitely very important. Everyone has their own story. And I know we don't have the time and space to record every single one of them. But getting a representative collection of those voices and stories. And hopefully, those voices, being able to talk about their peers' experiences as well. So it's more of a general idea of what we went through and what life is like for students at Waterloo is so important and just being able to reflect back on that in the future and see how far we've come as people and students at Waterloo.
  • Anne
    That's amazing. I'm wondering for your generation of students, how would be the best way for them to digest some of this kind of content? How would you think we could present it to them in a way that's, you know, accessible but also interesting and could be hopefully and potentially inspiring?
  • Camille
    We're definitely in the age of technology and social media. You know, everyone -- most people use technology and social media. So I guess making it into little digestible pieces that people can see while they're going about their daily life.
  • Anne
    And share easily.
  • Camille
    Yeah, and share easily, for sure. Yeah, I think my generation has a short attention span. I will admit that. So yeah, I guess nothing too long form. But I think if people are actually interested, then there can be a long form version of this. Maybe articles on websites that people visit frequently if they want to learn more about the story and just making it accessible on the school's websites or social media platforms.
  • Anne
    That's great, where students regularly may frequent and see content.
  • Camille
    Yes, exactly.
  • Anne
    Yes. That's great. Do you have any final thoughts, anything that we didn't cover about your experience at Waterloo?
  • Camille
    Not that I can think of. I think that just overall, my time so far at the University of Waterloo has been exceptional. And it's -- yeah, it's coming close to the end. It's five -- I'm in my fifth out of six years here. And it's been a long time, for sure. I'm excited to be done. But I'll definitely miss the environment at Waterloo. But all of the experiences and knowledge that I've learned and all of the relationships and people that I've met at Waterloo will continue into the future. It doesn't just end after you graduate. You bring all of these life experiences and people that you've become very close with into your life after. So yeah, overall, I think I've been very blessed with a positive experience here at Waterloo.
  • And I hope that most people can relate to this and have positive and fond memories of their time here. And I'm thankful for this initiative that, you know, someone is interested in what I have to say. And hopefully, other people are also interested and can learn from that. And who knows, maybe future me in 30 years will watch this back and just be proud of how far I've come and where I am -- wherever I am in that point of my life in the future. And I hope other people can have that same experience, even if it's not like an interview this, that they have memories that they can look back on in the near future and be proud of how far they've come as well.
  • Anne
    That's a lovely thought to end on. Thank you so much. What I'm going to do is I'm going to pause the recording, and then I'll just give you all of the details of what happens next. But thank you so much for speaking with me.
  • Camille
    Thank you so much for having me.